Help talk:Namespaces

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Revision as of 04:11, 2 March 2020 by Duncan (talk | contribs) (Text replacement - "[[Category:" to "[[category:")

Private space

We say that there are no private spaces on TP. By "private space" do we mean pages which are hidden from the view of other users?--Bob M 04:31, 21 February 2012 (CST)

Lesson or Main

Proposal: In response to Jameson's point, here, I observe that having a separate "Lesson:" namespace is inflexible and creates problems we don't need, such as Jameson's problem of where to put activities. If we put conversation questions, activities, lesson plans, games, grammar, biographies of luminaries in our field, methodologies, approaches, and all matters falling within the general topic of TEFL in the Main namespace and rely on _Category_ tags instead of _Namespaces_ to sort them out, we will have a more flexible system more in keeping with the design of the wiki engine. I'd rather see users drive the labeling of most content, through the flexibility of user generated Category tags, than constrain users within inflexible "Namespace:" prefixes. Because a given page can have many category tags but it can have only one namespace, segregating pages too zealously into namespaces needlessly corrals contributions in ways contributors may find unintuitive, unhelpful, or downright wrong. I propose we simply put TEFL contributions in Main namespace and dispense with this troublesome, and perhaps simply unnecessary, "Lesson:" namespace. --Roger 11:32, 17 October 2012 (CDT)

I'm afraid that I don't really agree. "Mainspace" has information about teaching. Lesson Space is for stuff that people use when teaching. To my mind they are conceptually different things.
If I remember correctly "Lesson space" was originally called "Freestuff" which was a much more general name which would accept anything, but I was persuaded that "Lesson Space" would be more professional-looking. However anything which contains activities which would be used in class such as starters, warmers, games, role-plays or whatever can still go in "lesson space".
As usual I'm open to persuasion on this.--Bob M 12:21, 17 October 2012 (CDT)
The problem is the distinction just doesn't work well in practice. There are numerous articles in Main namespace about all kinds of things TEFLish--who's who, what's what, anything about English, grammar, pronunciation, lists of conversation questions, etc. Obviously conversation questions are for use in teaching. Seems to me activities, games, warmers, coolers and lessons (which perhaps we don't really have) fit right in there with what's what in TEFL. I'm afraid the distinction you would have us make between things used in the classroom and everything else is just not quite realistic in practice. So really, why not move everything from Lesson namespace into Main, assign category tags and not worry about it? --Roger 16:02, 17 October 2012 (CDT)
Although I have no idea about the technical aspect, from a user´s POV there needs to be a distinction made between an activity and a lesson. So if a teacher has planned their lesson and needs a communication activity, they can narrow their search accordingly. As a teacher I have had to trawl through pages of miscellaneous activities (such as on Daves´s esl cafe) and it is very draining and puts you off using a website. If the distinction can be made between lessons and activities, it may help the site categorization further down the line - what do you think Roger& Bob M? --Jameson2000ad
Help:Categories <〈——————〈〈〈 the devil is in the details. Someone's got to organize this as simply as possible and then explain as briefly as practicable. The list of all categories is getting quite long and needs to be organized into a usable category tree. The value of categories is users can invent and assign them. For example, Jameson could simply type [[category:Activity]] and or [[category:Something else]] at bottom of pages however he feels is helpful. Jameson, this might be something you would be good at. Are you game? If so... let's do it. Let's give a category tree a try. I'll start with Help:Categories. --Roger 23:08, 17 October 2012 (CDT)
I fully agree that categories are the answer to Jameson's specific point. @ Jameson. I don't known if you have looked at this section of the mainpage which talks a little about spaces and why they exist. (And thanks for your contributions by the way.)--Bob M 03:32, 18 October 2012 (CDT)
Pro. One pro of Lesson/Main segregation is this example of a Teflpedia page, confusingly over linked to other Teflpedia pages, Breaking News English (I know those in-text links are supposed to be helpful but they look like they link directly on Breaking News English and then take you instead to other Teflpedia pages--overlinkage). Teachers searching for lesson material at Teflpadia are not interested in links to other sites anyway (that sort of Web indexing is what folks go to Google for, not Teflpedia), they want to find actual material here. Now I understand us having that article about Breaking News English and listing it in "Category:Class materials" because that is what that site provides. However, a link to another site is not classroom material. At least by having a "Lesson:" namespace we make it clear where lesson stuff is. Our Search feature can search exclusively in it if you check only the [ ] Lesson box in the Advanced Search page. Frankly this stuff becomes info overload fast, as Jameson noted. I might not have the Wizard powers to sort it out. But I will muddle away with my modest amateur IT pot of icky brew and see if I can stir up trouble. Get ready for a bang!--cloud of smoke--flood of tiny brooms! --Roger 13:36, 18 October 2012 (CDT)
I agree with Roger in that teachers (probably) use Teflpedia to find material, and that somehow the external links should be moved out of category lists... User:Jameson2000ad

Good idea! I'll do that right now, by appending "site" to the end of the category tags on all pages about other websites. And if the page is about a materials book, I'll append "book". --Roger 15:03, 18 October 2012 (CDT)

It occurs to me that people could use TP in one of three ways to find material for classes.
  1. To find actual class materiel which "we" have created and hold here.
  2. To find suggestions about how to create their own class. Create a topical class
  3. To find other sites on the web which provide ready-made lessons. Breaking News English (Which is very good, or at least very convenient.)
I don't see why we shouldn't have all three.
I'm still bit conflicted about the mainspace/lessonspace thing. If we move things from lessonspace to mainspace then we would have to ensure that every "lesson" type article were headed "lesson" or "activity" or something so as to ensure that they were not confused with an article about that subject - as opposed to a lesson which just happened to have that name. That would be messy.--Bob M 03:34, 22 October 2012 (CDT)